The Empty Nest Kitchen

Empowering Nonprofits: The Marketing Magic of Laura Van Bloem

• Christine Van Bloem • Season 2 • Episode 44

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Remember back in the day when tv shows would declare a "very special episode"? Well this week, I'm declaring it too, as I convince my brilliant sister-in-law, Laura Van Bloem, to join me on the podcast to talk all things non-profit marketing.

Laura shares her insights on the importance of storytelling and impact communication for successful nonprofit fundraising. We get into hybrid work culture, fractional employment, and the transitions women experience as our children leave home. You'll find practical advice for nonprofits and service businesses on effective marketing strategies, and a great conversation about being a mid-life woman in today's world.



00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:04 Gym Stories and Hydrotherapy Chair
03:42 Nonprofit Marketing Insights
07:17 Career Journey in Nonprofit Sector
09:45 Challenges and Strategies in Fundraising
13:36 Transition to Consulting
20:37 Work-Life Balance and Career Reflections
22:44 Reflecting on Gen X Responsibilities
24:15 Changing Career Dynamics
25:51 The Rise of Fractional Employment
30:09 Hybrid Work Culture Challenges
32:01 Navigating Empty Nest Syndrome
36:01 Future Plans and Retirement Thoughts
40:27 Favorite Meals and Final Thoughts

Find Laura at VB Communications or on Linked In.



Christine Van Bloem:

Whoa, happy day. So, listen, one of the things that I do is I ask every person that I know and love that I think is awesome if they would be on the podcast. So today I've got one of my favorite humans of all time, and I know she's like, oh my God, shut up. But my sweet, sweet dear go-getter of a sister-in-law, Laura Van Bloem. Welcome aboard, Laura. Good

Laura Van Bloem:

morning. I am very excited to be here. You finally persuaded me. Are you nervous? No.'cause I'm talking to you so I feel okay.

Christine Van Bloem:

See, oh my gosh, she just made my whole day a good one right there. Alright, so before we came on, I was telling Laura that I am now the workout queen because Jim came into town and it's really cheap, which is awesome because I'm all about it. And I said that after I'm done working out, I go to the hydrotherapy chair and Laura said. What's the hydrotherapy chair? And it is delicious. It is the greatest thing. It's this, it's this lounge chair that you're on. So like your knees are propped up a little and you're at a bit of an angle. Yeah. And it's got warm water jets underneath that basically go up and down the length of your body. Nice. And you can decide how fast it goes and how hard the pressure is, and I'm like, give it all to me. Right? I'm like, I do like 80% and then I put on Enya because I try to listen to like nineties hip hop, ah, and some eighties hair metal when I'm lifting. And then I switch to Enya when I get my 10 minutes on this precious machine. I didn't know that was like a thing that gyms just offered. It's a thing that's awesome. It's a thing. And then they have a thing called a a human touch. A human touch. And it's this chair that you like, put your arms kind of in these slots and you put your legs in and it kind of expands around you. And then you're supposed to do this zero gravity thing, which I did not do'cause I didn't know I was supposed to do it. And then it kind of squeezes you. I got stuck in the chair. I couldn't get outta the chair, and a lady came in beside me and she seemed like they had just gotten'em the day before. I'm like, Hey, hi. Do you, do you know anything about these chairs? Because like, I couldn't get, I couldn't get my arms out. I couldn't get my ankles out. Oh my gosh. And it was so funny. She's like, oh, it's really easy. I'm like, is. Is it really easy? And she's like, did you do the zero gravity? I'm like, what's that? And I had to figure out how to like stop the whole machine because it had grass, emergency stop button. There's no emergency stop. You know how they have that on a treadmill? They have the thing you clip to your clothes. When I did cardiac rehab, they were like, do you have a clip on? I'm like, what has happened here that they're so militant. But there's nothing like that for the human touch chair. So I just kinda look at it now. As I walk by and go to my hydrotherapy bed, I think the hydrotherapy bed sounds awesome and you should just visit that. It's so good. It's so good. It's my little treat when I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. So now I didn't bring Laura on just to talk about, you know, all of the stuff that's us.'cause Laura and I could go on and talk for hours. We could, we could. But I brought Laura on because Laura is phenomenal. We are just about exactly the same age. She's older by like two and a half weeks. Yeah. And then Laura works in nonprofit marketing, which is really interesting because I am a huge marketing fan. Like huge. I love marketing. And you do too. I do. What, and what is your background like ultimately, where did you get started in all of this?

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah. Well, you know, I started out my career in traditional advertising agencies in New York City. Right. The big agencies. I worked in media, I worked in account service and you know, our clients did TV commercials and radio commercials and you know, there was no social media then. There was nothing online then. No cell phones. No cell phones. Actually, I remember as a media buyer, so that's the person who buys the airtime, the commercial airtime between, you know, during commercial breaks and cable TV was a new thing. It was, I remember, what is this ca because I bought off the networks. I bought C-B-S-A-B-C-N-B-C, and it was like, what is this cable? Thing going on. And it was really cheap because no one knew what the hell cable was. So life was very different back then. But the, the advertising was very traditional, you know, it was very much like it was based on TV commercials, right. Like follow that model. Yeah. So things have changed, obviously, dramatically in marketing, especially with the onslaught of, you know, cable tv. Dividing the whole media landscape. And then obviously we have social media and we have TikTok and we've got product placement and everything. So it, it's changed a lot. But I think e even with all the changes, even with all the changes going on with the, the media platforms that are out there, it's all still about connecting with the audience and telling a compelling story no matter what you're selling, no matter what you're doing. And, nonprofits, especially today because a lot of funding is being pulled from them. Nonprofits really need to talk about the impact they're making versus what they're doing. And my, my former organization was, was guilty of doing this. Lots of organizations are guilty of talking about what they do. Hey, we feed the hungry. Hey, we shelter the homeless and that's terrific, but donors. Or customers, if you have a regular for-profit business, they wanna know what the impact is. They wanna know that they're, you know putting their dollars in a good place. They wanna know the value you bring. So even though the landscape has changed dramatically, it all still boils down to storytelling and connecting on an emotional level with your audience.

Christine Van Bloem:

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's amazing. And one of the reasons I thought it would be so great to have you on here is one of the things that's happening as we get older and our kids kind of move on and start creating their own lives is that we have more time than we feel like we've ever had. Right? So, so many people go into volunteerism. And they start getting on boards because at our age we have experience in things, right? So they start getting on boards and all that. And I thought having somebody who's worked from the inside of this is so valuable and it brings so much to it. I mean, I even worked at a nonprofit in marketing, you know, briefly for about 18 months locally here and. You are doing it on a bigger scale, and I just think you have such a grasp on how it all works. So what kind of nonprofit jobs, I guess, have you held recently?

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah, so I worked for probably in the last 10 plus years, I shifted from for-profit, you know, at traditional advertising. Took some time off to stay at home with my kids. And then when I went back, I really moved to the nonprofit sector. The first one was technically, it was like a television production company. It was a nonprofit television production company where most of the programs aired on PBS. And even though that was a nonprofit, it kind of functioned like a corporate office. It, it functioned like the, the fundraising was, my boss would go meet people, shake their hand and they'd be like, okay, we'll give you money. So like your traditional nonprofit experience. Then the last organization I moved to, it was a social services and behavioral health organization. Very traditional nonprofit, very traditional fundraising where you're, you know, sending out little postcards to people. So they sending their check for the, you know, the hunger, the Thanksgiving meal, or you know, we had. Talking to major donors, people who would give big dollars meeting for them for coffee and lunches and whining and dining them. And then we had special events, and then we had government grants. So that was very traditional fundraising. So it was a very different animal. But what I did at both places, I did part marketing. And part fundraising. And my, my last job was supposed to be all marketing. That's what I was hired for. At the time we didn't have a director of development, so I kind of slid into that role. And what ended up happening was most of my time, effort, and energy was focused on fundraising, lot less on marketing, which is stuff I like to do. So I did that for about. Two and a half years. And after two and a half years I realized it, it just was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to get back to marketing. So took a break and resigned back in the fall and now I'm trying to figure out my next step. You are in the right place now. What's the difference between development and marketing? So development is just a fun, another name for fundraising, right? So development is. Bring in the money. So I was responsible for bringing in the money marketing and development work hand in hand. They have to work hand in hand. So if the development team decides, okay, we wanna execute a campaign, a fundraising campaign, obviously the marketing team will be a part of that. So they, they go very much hand in hand. But marketing can do other things too. It can talk, you know, can. Expand brand awareness. It can, you know do pr it does crisis communication. So marketing has all its own responsibilities as well. But in general, development is fundraising and marketing is how you're putting yourself out there. But they have to work hand in hand.

Christine Van Bloem:

They really do. And, and with we, I mean we won't get into politics, but we know we are living in a tumultuous time. Right? And we are watching all of these, especially smaller nonprofits, sort of start to, you know. I worked in marketing. We have family members who have worked in advertising and marketing, and we know that advertising and marketing are always the first thing that's cut. Right. That's always, and and it always makes me crazy because it's the last thing that should be cut because that is how you communicate to everyone, right. It's

Laura Van Bloem:

right.

Christine Van Bloem:

Right. It looks like you've dropped off the face of the earth and ah, but a lot of places now can't afford to bring or to maintain a full-time marketing person on their staff. Right. It's such an issue. And people who aren't marketing folks, of course, I mean, they don't think about it, right.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah. And I now that I've been on the inside of, of a nonprofit, I can understand it because when I was development director, my job was bring to bring in about f$8 million a year. And if I didn't, you either cut programs or people got fired and you know, that's a heavy. Right. You know, that's a, that's a big deal. And, you know, the work we were doing is really important. We were, you know, we were really saving some people's lives. So I understand why marketing would be the first to go from a budgetary standpoint.'cause eh, it's probably better to cut marketing than to cut Bob's the job, the accountant or whatever. Right, right. Or, or cut this program. But as you're saying, Christine, the most important thing is to be out there and be communicating with, with donors and, and government organizations that have grants and things like that. And right now the big hit that a lot of these organizations are filling is the government grants are drying up. So in in the fundraising world, there's really kind of three buckets. There's individual donors like just you and me, people who give two programs. There's institutional donors and those are corporations, organizations, right? So that's like, you know, the big bank who supports the local 5K re stuff like that. And then there's government grants. So there's a million government grants out there for all different kinds of, or, programs and organizations. So, because the government grants tend to be drying up right now, or at least they're not stable, there's, there's uncertainty with them. Nonprofits really have to shift to focusing on. Individual donors and corporations, institutional donors. And those donors really wanna know like, okay, well what are you doing for with my dollars? I wanna know that for sure my dollar is being used well and and individual donors themselves are unsure about the economy, right? Like, like fundraising in general, like donations in general is, is starting to pull back.'cause everyone's uncertain about the economy, right? People spoil what Ks are in jeopardy. So it's like. I don't wanna really give right now if I'm not sure that my dollars are being spent. Well. So that's another reason why if you are gonna do some marketing nonprofits, you've really gotta make sure you're talking about the impact you're doing so that people feel like there's value there that it's worth to donate to your organization.

Christine Van Bloem:

Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. You really know your stuff here. I try. I tell you what though, NPR gets my money every month though. Yeah. Yeah. They're so smart. They get you hooked up. It's my local shout out to WYPR in Baltimore. Thank you very much. I love WYPR and they're so smart because they get you on that monthly thing. I don't even think I could stop it if I wanted to. Like I don't have a clue. I don't have a clue how to do it, and I don't give very much, but it's like something that goes every month and every time I turn on the radio, I feel a little proud.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

You know, it's so silly. Or when they say for you know, contributing or sustaining members. Yes. And I'm like, yeah, that's me. That's me. Gimme my tote bag. Gimme my tote bag. I think we got a mug. I think we got a mug and it was one of those metal ones. I hate those. So this is something that you are doing now in like a, a contract capacity for different nonprofits, right? That's sort of the direction you're going. I.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah, so I took some time off when I resigned in the fall and I decided, you know what? I'm gonna do my own thing.'cause I really, I like the idea of helping nonprofits who can't afford or don't have the bandwidth to have like a, a seasoned marketing executive, right? I kind of feel like, I like to help the underdogs, like I'm not gonna go work at the Red Cross. Like they, they have plenty of people and plenty of money doing what they need to do and they do wonderful work. But I wanna help the folks who are a little bit like the underdogs. You know, the ones who just, just don't really know what they're supposed to be doing From a marketing standpoint, a lot of these organizations tend to just do the same things over and over and over again and hope it's gonna work. But you know, like I said before, the landscape has changed. You gotta talk to your donors differently. So that's kind of exciting. So my, my goal is to connect with folks who need some support and I'm. I'm focusing on nonprofits, but what I am realizing is that professional service providers have a, a similar. Issue of a similar problem. If you think about like, I dunno, a law firm or an accounting firm or something, they often will say, we're the best. You know, we, we, yeah, okay. The best we, we win the most cases, which is great, but you gotta talk to the consumer. You gotta talk to the customer. Because customers and donors are selfish. They just wanna know what's in it for me, right? So if you're a law firm, you need to tell them, I'm going to get you money, or I'm gonna win cases for you. Or if you're an accounting firm like. Hey, we're gonna take the burden of finances and you know, taxes off the table so you can grow your business, whatever the impact is. But a lot of times, nonprofits and and professional service providers tend to talk about what they. Do versus the impact they make. And I think if they can just flip that script a little bit, if they can flip that a little bit it'll make a big difference because again, people, people are selfish and they just wanna know what's information. So, like, a donor is selfish too. Like, I wanna know, my money's going in a really good place. I wanna know when YI send in that a hundred dollars. What's happening? Okay, great. You fed 10 people this week in your soup kitchen, but what was the impact of feeding those people? Maybe Bob was able to pay for his medicine'cause he didn't have to pay for groceries. You know, it's stuff like that, that the story behind the activity that people really wanna understand. I.

Christine Van Bloem:

Ooh, that's so good. And I'm sitting here going, why do I donate to WYPR? What am I getting from it? And I guess I get that little Ooh, when they say sustaining members.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah, yeah. Right. And I get to listen to WYPR. Like, it, it's on the air. It's still on the air, yeah. Yeah. With my pit lead

Christine Van Bloem:

donation.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah. But you know what, it's, it's, it's what's what, what's important to you and what connects with you emotionally. Right. And sometimes it's a matter of, you know. You feel making you feel good, right? Yeah. Like, I feel good. I'm doing something good, I'm making an impact. And that itself is a reason to, to donate, but yet you gotta match up the the value proposition to make sure it's something that's in sync with you.

Christine Van Bloem:

Yeah, absolutely. So has this been an easy transition for you? Was this like a cut and dry, oh, this is a snap. I'm gonna leave this job and now I'm doing this. No, it's been terrifying

Laura Van Bloem:

and I feel like I'm doing it very poorly. You what? No. Stop. Okay. So, so wait, go ahead. Go ahead. I'll say, so I I was listening to like a, so I'm figuring out like how to be a marketing consultant, right? So there's a gazillion webinars and podcasts and. Websites out there that you know how to do it. So I was listening to Juan and I was laughing out loud because she's saying, listen, I know what you're all doing. You're, you're building your big fancy website. You don't need a website to be a consultant. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm building a website, not that fancy. I'm building a website and I'm like, as soon as my website's done, then I'll tell the world that I'm ready and this, this. Person was saying like, you don't, you don't need that. Just start telling people right now. And I, there's been this I guess it's fear of rejection, right? So I'm afraid like, sure, when we start telling people and no one calls me back, right? That I'm be like, oh, maybe this was a terrible idea. So it's been I don't know. I've been kind of like stuck. I've been going through the motions, like getting the website together, pulling my materials together, you know, putting offers together and stuff like that. But I just haven't told anybody about it. I'm not like. Pro. The ironic thing is I'm not promoting myself, I'm not marketing myself, which is, well that is a

Christine Van Bloem:

total, that is so common, right? That is such a common thing. And you even see it with marketing agencies. When I see one that's really good at marketing themselves, personally, I get a little excited'cause I'm like, okay, they're taking the time to do that. But it, it is true, I mean. I tell you what, I have always been in the same boat you are in, right? When it's together and when I have everything right? And I don't know if it's just post heart attack or post covid or whatever. And now I'm like, I don't care. You know, I did a, I did a logo on Canva. I bought like a, a set of logos that you could customize and I did that. I did have somebody wonderful put the website together for me. But it's a simple. Website. I mean, it's getting more developed as I add services and all of that, but I think you and I get stuck in that It's gotta be perfect.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

And then I'll do it. Which results in no forward movement. That's exactly right. Right. That's

Laura Van Bloem:

right. That's exactly,

Christine Van Bloem:

that's it. Yeah. And now I'm kind of like running down the street naked, you know, just telling, just like, okay, it's great. It's. And it's, I, I feel a lot more relief. It's kind of a go before you're ready sort of thing. Yes. And I've known you a very long time, and I know that you are not a pull trigger and aim kind of person. You are. Look at the target, measure the distance, you know, do the whole thing. And now I, I think you need to pull the trigger a name,

Laura Van Bloem:

right? Yeah. I just go, ironically, I'm having like my final. Meeting with my web person today. So it's, it, the website's live. I'm just making final adjustments, so it's like, now I'm out of excuses. I'm literally out of excuses. So yeah, I just need to, to do it. And I think part of, part of my, my challenge was, or a challenge I put on myself was when I first resigned, I wasn't a hundred percent sure should I. Branch out on my own or should I just go get another job? You know, just get a marketing job at an in a nonprofit. And I was, I was looking at both paths at the same time. So I wasn't giving either option my full attention. I was like doing both, and I was doing both half-assed, right? So if you're doing something half-assed, it's not gonna happen. So it was only just until very recently, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna stop looking at LinkedIn jobs. I'm gonna stop and I'm gonna focus on this business. So I feel like I'm like, okay. Now I'm ready. Now I'm gonna do it. So That's

Christine Van Bloem:

so good. It's happening. That's so good. It's happening. It's all happening. Yeah. Do you think it's really common to see this sort of play out at our age and we're both late fifties, right? Yeah. We, Laura and I met, seriously, I think we were 23. That sounds about right. Yeah. It's been a minute. It's been a minute. Do you, do you think that it's that a lot of women our age are wrestling with things like this?

Laura Van Bloem:

I do. And I think one of the reasons why, which I think is a good reason, is because work life balance has become more of a thing that people are paying attention to. Right? I mean, for until. My last job, I was working crazy hours all the time and go, go, go. And I have to succeed and I have to be, you know, I have to impress my boss and I have to do all these things. And I think Covid, I helped us all look at like work-life balance. And I think I. I think it's a good thing that we're taking a look at. I never thought about that before and I had two kids growing up in my house and I was always like crazy. So I, it's funny now that they're outta the house. Hmm. Now that they're gone, I'm like, I think I would like a better work life balance. And they're not here. So it's, it's, it's strange. I feel like I'm late to the party and I feel like I should have done this a long time ago, but, you know. The work-life balance is really important and, and I will say I, you know, I am married and my husband is the breadwinner, so I do have the opportunity to be able to do this. If I was say, a single mom and the breadwinner, I don't know, I would if I would be doing this because I, I would be too afraid not to have income for a while. So I feel very fortunate that I'm able to do that. But yeah, I think, I think right now I think people. Women our age especially are kind of like f this man, like I've been, I've been killing myself for a long time. It's, it's time for me to find some balance. So I, I credit really covid for kick starting that, at least for me. I.

Christine Van Bloem:

And I think the, I think it is something that the younger generation has. I don't know if I would say that they have nailed it, because sometimes I think they go a little too far in the other direction. Right. But I think they're kind of like, no, I'm, I'm okay. Because we are definitely. That Phil oac, do you remember the Phil oac, right? Yeah. I was so desperate. For one, I would go Bloomingdale's and look at them. I couldn't afford'em at all, but that generation of. You know, it was our job to have it all. Right. That's what Gen X was. Yeah. Because our moms had to be in the workforce. I think both of our moms were nurses. Yep. Right. And our moms had to be in the workforce. And mom came home and made dinner and mom took care of business and you had a single mom, you know? So your mom was really stretched. And it was our job to come in and get the job and climb the ladder and work really hard and have the kids and still do all the stuff at home. And we both have excellent husbands. We do really supportive, really great guys, but we did and do all the stuff right? We maintain the household, we take care of all the set, and that was kind of our job. And now I think the younger generations, the millennials and maybe, what's the one, is it Gen Alpha or who comes after millennials? Gen ZI. Gen Z. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what our kids are. They have come in and now they're like, yeah, that stinks. I don't want any part of that, you know? And it's really interesting seeing it play out, but it's more interesting for me. To see it play out with people 50 plus to see it play out with women 50 plus. Yeah. And the idea of a career is so different now than what it was, I mean, 30 years ago. Can you imagine saying you're a nonprofit marketing consultant? Yeah. Right. Or you're a service business marketing consultant. Can you imagine that people would've laughed at you? Yeah. You would've had to have the PO box. You would've had to have the pager, right? You would've had to have all those things. Yes. The working from a home office, are you kidding me? Yeah. So I think it's really cool how it's all playing out now, and I love that you're jumping on

Laura Van Bloem:

the, the train. Yeah. Well, you know, I, you said two things I wanna comment on. One is regarding the younger generation, I, you know, I want, I'm on TikTok and these things get in my feed, and then they, once you click on it, like you see it a hundred times, but I keep seeing these short perform videos with these men. Twenties, thirties who say your partner. Your partner is your partner, not your mom, or your wife is your partner, not your mom. The whole idea of being that like, you need to do the dishes and you need to cook dinner from a guy. Yeah, yeah. You need to. And I'm just like, that's amazing that, that's on TikTok, right? Like, that would never have been in our generation, like these guys who are saying like, my partner is not my mother and she's not taking care of me. I'm, I'm gonna be, you know, pull my own weight in my relationship. So the fact that there's just this expectation that, kids today want a work life balance and, and, and all that, like, house stuff is a little bit more evenly divided. It's fantastic. Right? That's what we want. Yeah. You want your kids to have a better life than you. So this next generation, I think is really embracing that, which is wonderful. Yeah. And then the other thing you said, which is, so true right now. I mean, I'm deep diving into this world, so of course I'm, I'm, I'm more in tune to it. But this idea of fractional employees like a fractional CMO or a fractional CFO, which is code for part-time,'cause fractional sounds sexier than part-time, but fractional is like all the rage right now because of what you were talking about before. Maybe a smaller organization doesn't have the budget to hire someone full time and pay them for 12 months and pay their benefits and everything, but hey, you wanna come work? 10, 20 hours a week and I can pay you part of a salary and not have to pay you benefits. That's really attractive for a lot of organizations. So this fractional buzzword I'm hearing everywhere, which is, it's similar to a consultant, like a consultant is kind of could be considered fractional if, if you're steady and you're, you're staying on, or you could come in for a project and leave. But yeah, fractional is kind of the thing. And I think that allows a lot of people our age, who are seasoned, informed, have lots of experience in their. Industry to go dip into a couple of different, or organizations and work sort of part-time fractionally and make a career out of it.

Christine Van Bloem:

Yeah, and I think there are two things that have to come from that, right? So I think the number one is if you are a fractional employee at this kind of upper level because of all the experience that we have, then I really do think that it's important that you as the provider there. Maintain that you're doing 10 or 20 hours a week, not that you're gonna go in and do the job 40 hours a week and just not charge'em or anything. That's a really important thing to make sure.'cause I know you are like a, you will give it all and it's hard to do it that way, but hopefully somebody like us comes in and. Because you're a fractional employee. You are really focused, and I mean there's, especially if you're not in the office, you don't waste a lot of time with the water cooler stuff. Right, right. It's, you're a focused person getting it done. And then the other thing is, and I think this is really tricky. I, I think boomers are incapable of this, and I think a lot of Gen Xers are, but you have to, as management, you have to be really. Forward thinking in changing how you have looked at employees for your whole career. Right, because I have worked for people who are just absolutely brilliant. They're so good, but they do get a little. You know, stuck in, no, I need somebody who's here 40 hours a week sitting at a desk doing, and that's not the world anymore. And I know we're having that boomerang effect, right? Of work from home was everything. And now they're trying to pull people back into the office and I, I think we'll end up somewhere that's a happy medium for a lot of people, right? Because employers wanna know that they're gained the value, they're gained the. The effort from the employees for what they're being paid, and employees wanna know that they're being appreciated. And you know, with flexibility, I. Because I think flexibility is the most important thing that's out there for a lot of people now, to go back with that work-life balance. But I think as somebody who's running a business or running a nonprofit, I think you really have to look at how you think and. Do you need to maintain some or create or develop some flexibility in how you look at these employees? Because I think a fractional employee, somebody at a CMO level like you, I, I just, I, to me, it's such a no brainer, right? Yeah. Right. If you're, why would you not take the woman who has, you know, decades of experience in this field who can really zoom in and give you what you need? 10 hours, you know, give you the 10 hour and maybe it goes to 20, and then maybe they decide they wanna bring a person on, you know, who knows how it goes out. But I, I just think it's such a great way for people in Gen X to kind of develop that next stage.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And you know, I, I, my last organization, there was some struggle with that, with the, the hybrid working. It was just not the culture. And I remember talking, it was actually an HR woman. I remember talking to her and when the day she wasn't in the office, people would say, enjoy your day off. It's like, I'm, it's not a day off. I'm just work. She had young kids, she's like, I'm working from home. Yeah. So some, some places just the culture is just a little outta whack and they don't understand. Stand that. Yeah. I mean, everyone does hybrid or almost everyone does hybrid. I mean, a lot of organizations do hybrid and yeah, it was just interesting that, that that place just couldn't catch up. You couldn't see it. Yeah. They couldn't see it. I, I know, I think too, and I'm sorry, just wanna, I think too, yeah, a lot of that is driven by the leadership, right? So a hundred

Christine Van Bloem:

percent,

Laura Van Bloem:

if the leadership believes in its people and trusts that they are doing the work, then hybrid is obviously a much more open or a, a acceptable way to go. But if you have a leader who doesn't trust his people and just doesn't think they're doing the work, thinks they're slacking off all the time. Then hybrid's gonna be a challenge and, and that was one of the things in one of the organizations I worked at, the leadership just. Didn't, didn't think that people were doing the work when they were home, so Yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

Well you get that one bad apple, right? Yeah. If you get that one person who really isn't doing the work right, they're, they're, because it happens, we're, we'd be fools to think that everybody is working diligently at home all the time. Yeah. Just like in the office, right? Right. And I worked in an office where it was, we would have to talk a lot about different things, and if we would get off on a tangent, I could see we would get the eyeball, you know? And it's like, well, that's part of the collaboration and everything. Yeah. But when you get that person who's. Not like you go and ping them and you don't get a response for an hour and a half. Right. You know? So, you know, you know, something's going on. They're going to lay on the hydrotherapy bed. Yeah. Right, right. So, alright, so you have two boys? Mm-hmm. Two fabulous boys. Right? You have two fabulous boys and one has graduated college and has moved to California. California dreaming, doing the LA thing. We love him. We're so proud of him. And then you have your second son who is came ready to graduate college. Yes. We're so excited that last tuition payment is the greatest. Yeah. Woo. Isn't that so good? Because I, I paid that before I quit my job. Yeah. That's the thing, right? It, it opens you up so much. But then he is moving to Boston to continue his education. Right. And you are based in New Jersey. But I mean, just to say you can take clients all over the country Of course. Of course. But what's it like, because I have a boomerang. I have one who's living at home with us temporarily. Picture the air quotes and then one that lives an hour away that we talk to every single day. Same time zone. Right? It's easy. What's it like having your, your kids so far away? I.

Laura Van Bloem:

You know it was really hard for me at first when my older son moved to California. But it, it's funny, when he went, when he first went away to college, I was very sad. Like, oh, my son's going to college. And for some stupid reason I thought I was never gonna like talk to him or see him again. And then you realize, Hmm. You kind of talk to him and you see him quite often when they're in college'cause they come home quite a bit. But the one thing that was great with my older son is we have a good texting relationship, right? He's not necessarily gonna call me all the time. We'll just text each other goofy things. So I, I, I love that about our relationship that, you know, just like, oh, I saw this funny thing and, and thought of you. And then a lot of times if I'm just in the car, I'll just be like, Hmm. I'll just call him, you know, be mindful of the time change, you know? Right. Hour difference. But, but just call him. So, and between holidays and stuff, I'll see him a couple times a year. So I've, I've adjusted to that. And I think he's probably gonna be. On the west coast for a long time. So I've adjusted to that. But then my younger guy, I was kinda like, well, he's gonna come graduate from college and come home, so at least I'll have one of'em in the house. And then recently decided to go to Boston to finish or to. Continuous education, and then I think he's gone after that. Like, I don't, I don't think he's coming back. So I was, I was prepared mentally that my older son was not returning from California. Like okay. But I, I was kinda like, oh, I thought the younger guy was coming home. So I'm super excited for him. It's exactly what he wants. Right? I am so proud of him. I'm, I'm thrilled, but I'm like, oh, this is real. Oh, that, this is really it. Right. He'll be home for the summer for like two months and then I think he's gone. I think he's gone after that. So it's funny, you know, I have people ask me have you changed like the older son's bedroom yet and stuff like that. And I haven't,'cause I just was like, well it's kind of a guest room'cause there's a bed in there. But actually just, I was thinking this summer I'm gonna clean out his room and de you know, Tim fire it. Like it's not, he doesn't live there. Yeah. Like there's still some stuff in the closet that he doesn't need that I'm just gonna get rid of. So I think I'm finally ready to take his room and, you know, make it. More like a guest room and less like his old bedroom. Yeah, the younger guy. I'll give a little more time because we'll, we'll see, you know, he'll come home hopefully over holidays and stuff for graduate school. But yeah, so it's, it's, I feel like this change of, not change of plan, it was always the plan for the younger guy to go to graduate school, but now that it's a reality, I'm like, oh, okay, this is really happening. Like we're really empty nesters now.

Christine Van Bloem:

Well, and you are just a few minutes out in New York City. It's not like you're living in the middle of a cornfield and there are no jobs near you. Right. Yeah. So I can see why you would think, oh yeah, of course he's coming back because yeah. You know, all of that. But yeah, it's, it's interesting, isn't it?

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

We had, we had a great time when we went and visited your son in California.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yes. That was very fun.

Christine Van Bloem:

That was a good time. We're gonna make that an annual trip.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

Yeah.

Laura Van Bloem:

And it, you know, things like, so now that it's my husband and I in the house and we, we live in a suburb of New York City and it's a real easy commute for him. So as long as he's working in the city, it makes sense for us to stay in this house. But, you know, he's gonna retire in, I don't know, a couple years and then it's like, well, the, we probably shouldn't hang onto this house'cause it's a, a. Silly for us to have it. So there, I'm starting to look around the house and look at like, anything like, ooh, that door is crappy. We need to change that door. Oh, that needs to be painted. And just in, in my, in preparation for several years down the road, we're gonna sell the house. We've been here for 20 years. So like, you've been in a house for 20 years. Yeah. You, you, you don't see the cracks, right? You're just like, but, so now I'm looking at it with fresh eyes and like. Holy cow. Like there's stuff that needs to be fixed, but we're giving us ourselves several years to complete these projects. It's not like put the market house on the market next week and have to do a million things, right. I. Right. I, I

Christine Van Bloem:

don't know. I do the same thing.'cause I would, I would love to stay where we are. And our house isn't huge. Our house is only like 1900 square feet. It's not that big, but it's perfect for us. It is the perfect two person house.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yes. So

Christine Van Bloem:

with three of us in here right now, I'm a little like, but it, you know, it totally is. And I think about, I think about the retiring because my husband's going to retire from teaching. Next year. Now he'll still be in his fifties, so he's gotta get a job. Like there's no, we're, we're not those people. You cannot retire from teaching and then just live where we live and skate. So I'm like, well, you should work till 62. Hopefully I. Social security is still around, but I was thinking about, and you know, I don't really have any plans to stop working. Hmm. I'm sure it'll happen at some point, especially if I lose my mind or something. But I love what I do so much. I don't wanna stop. Do you kind of feel the same way? Or do you kind of feel like, no, this is a great thing, I love the marketing. I'm gonna stick with it for a, a little while and then maybe I'll retire, or you're, you're

Laura Van Bloem:

such a go-getter. Yeah. Well, because I haven't really done it yet. You know, I, I'm, I'm, you've done it. I mean, like, I haven't done it in this aspect. Doing the count, the, the. Marketing consultant aspect of it. I think once I get started in it, and if I'm really liking it, why not keep going? You know, I mean, because then it'll be, it'll be on my own terms. Yeah. If for some reason it goes south and it's not what I expect and I'm not enjoying it, then yes, I'll retire something. You know, and also, you know, my husband's a couple years older than me, so we've kind of figured he'll, he'll probably retire first and I don't know. I would, I would, as long as I have flexibility, I imagine I would keep flexibility and I'm enjoying it's it, and I'm making little money's, then I'll keep doing it. Like, that's it. I stop. I, I think I'm not in a situation where I'm gonna have any grandkids anytime soon. That's, that's far off. So, you know, that could change things in 10 years or something, but oh my goodness. Yeah. Until that happens, I, I, I can't imagine me because one of the things too is. Because I'm not working and I've got time on my hands during the day, I feel extremely guilty. I do not like having free time. I feel uncomfortable with having free time. So I spend my whole day working on my business, like taking a webinar. I'm reading books, you know, like I'm doing all the things, but except doing my business. So, but but I feel guilty if I am not. Working towards that. I, I just, I find it very uncomfortable to be, to have too much downtime. So I, I can't imagine me, unless I'm physically and mentally incapacitated in some way. I can't imagine me just sitting around all day. I just, I'm not that person.

Christine Van Bloem:

I can't imagine. I can't imagine. Yeah, no. Yeah. If people want to find you, where can they find you?

Laura Van Bloem:

So, my website is vb, as in van Bloem very. Beautiful. I don't know what you have to. Very beautiful it, Victor. Love it. Victor Bravo. Victor Bravo. VB Communications group. VB communications group.com or you gonna find me on LinkedIn, Laura Van Bloom on LinkedIn. I will

Christine Van Bloem:

put your a link to your website and I will put link to your LinkedIn on the show notes for anybody who's interested. Alright, last question. Favorite meal, last meal. What are you eating?

Laura Van Bloem:

Oh

Christine Van Bloem:

god. Oh, it's either steak or a pork chop.

Laura Van Bloem:

I wasn't prepared for that. I know. Yeah, it would probably be a ribeye with mashed potatoes.

Christine Van Bloem:

Mm. And

Laura Van Bloem:

like some kind of grilled vegetable, like a grilled asparagus or something.

Christine Van Bloem:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Asparagus for a last meal. That's a bold move.

Laura Van Bloem:

Well, I don't know. Like a grilled

Christine Van Bloem:

something.

Laura Van Bloem:

Yeah, definitely mashed potatoes. Definitely steak.

Christine Van Bloem:

Yeah.

Laura Van Bloem:

Definitely. Yeah. All

Christine Van Bloem:

right. You're my meat and potatoes cap. Maybe a

Laura Van Bloem:

bernese sauce.

Christine Van Bloem:

Oh, yeah. Now we're talking. Yeah, now we're talking. That's, I can show you how to make a bne sauce really easily in a measuring cup if you wanna say it's really easy. Excellent. Yeah, I'll do that. I'll show you, I'll take it. It doesn't quite go with all the Mediterranean diet stuff that I'm doing and eating now, but I'm like, I refuse to give it all up. Right. I think my last meal is gonna start with nacho cheese, like a lot of nacho cheese, but I want it to be really hot'cause I like it when it's really melty. Yeah. And then I'm gonna have lobster and peaches.

Laura Van Bloem:

Interesting. Yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

I think that a fresh, ripe peach during late summer is the single best thing you can ever eat. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Especially if the juice rolls down your elbow. I love that. I would

Laura Van Bloem:

add though, you know I would also add that I would have to have a warm chocolate chip cookie at the end.

Christine Van Bloem:

Oh,

Laura Van Bloem:

okay. Of love, love, love, chocolate chip cookie. So I would have to have that at the end. Oh yeah.

Christine Van Bloem:

I

Laura Van Bloem:

the

Christine Van Bloem:

things you learn, the things you learn, the things you learn. You are very sweet for coming on and doing this with me. Thank you. I had a ball. Thank you so much for having me. It's easy, right? Yeah. I'm hitting Maureen sister-in-law, Maureen next. I can't wait to add her into the mix, so we'll see. Excellent. I'm so lucky that I have all of these wonderful bonus family members. Yes. You know, and, and that I don't look at it like my husband's family or my family. It's just all my family. Yeah, I do too. I agree with that. I, I think we're really lucky. We are very lucky. I, I agree. We are. Absolutely. Look at us.

Laura Van Bloem:

Wonderful.

Christine Van Bloem:

All right. Thanks for doing this, lo, I appreciate it. I love you very much. Don't say thanks for having, I know it makes you uncomfortable.

Laura Van Bloem:

I love you too.

Christine Van Bloem:

All right guys, so you can find Laura's contact info. She's really spectacular. If you have a nonprofit, work for a nonprofit, you're on a nonprofit board or a service business, reach out to Laura. She's got it going on, and you know it. As always, I'll see you in the kitchen.